The Lizard Canary Association

Andy ,
are you sure the blue is recessive? I'd have thought it dominant .
Now I've never bred them so will need someone who has to answer this question for me please. If you pair a blue to a gold do you get blues and golds in the same nest? If yes then the blue is dominant (same as dominant white) if the answer is that all the young are visually gold but then by pairing two of these you produce blues then it is recessive . If only the cock birds pass it on it is sex linked recessive and if only the hen birds pass it on it is sex linked dominant.

Paul.

Kevin

Yep I would love to have some blues.

Shall we have a vote @ the LCA agm on the introduction of a class just for Blues, if they can do it @ the world show why not @ the Classic and other shows in the UK, @ least I know of 1 council member who would vote yes, lol.
Only problem is, as your the only 1 out of the closet Kevin, you would be the Classic champ.Hooray, unless there are MORE OF YOU OUT THERE????????????
I know, call me stupid, it aint gonna happen,
I just like the debate that I have caused and thought Kevin should get some recognision for his Blues.
I like them.

Regards Joe

hi joe, unfortunately i will neve raise the question and i dont think i would be able to vote , id probaby abstain. i wont say there wll never be a class for blues, but it will be many years before it i even considered, in an earlier post on this topic paul said how good it was that we can even talk about something controversial like blues in a good mannered way, this reminded me of somethin that appened a few years ago. i stated my line of blues10 years ago, about 8 years ago i started to see in cage and aviary that a fancier in the west country was winning lots of aov sections with blues, then in one edition his contact no was given, great , i gave him a call tis was a man to gie me advice, i called, he answered, i introduced myself and said i was ringing about his blue lizards, ok he said, are you a lca member, yes i replied, well that was it he aunched into a 10 minute tirade about the lca,the committe members, and all lizard breeders, he then slammed thephone down, afterwards i wasent sure wheather to feelsorry for him because he obviously had issues with the lca, or to feel relieved that i never had to speak to this man ever again,he was in m opinion one of those men who was always right. anyway i never got any advice or tips off him just earache, so going back to pauls comments, yes paul its great to have a good mannered debate and great to have the site tou created to do it on.tata

hi paul. i used a blue hen clear cap hen to 3 different gold cocks. 1st round had 2 blues and 1 gold........2nd round 2 silver 1 gold.. i tested the non cap gold cock this yr and got a gold hen and a silver hen.......so he cant be split........the noncaps now in gods aviary so the projects over....the hens will got to a pet aviary with the others . dom or ress ????? you tell me pls

andy

What this and the Pearl thread has proved is that people at least have an open mind about colour varients even though the 'official party line' is its a no no .
No here's a thing , I persoanally know 3 people that keep blues who are not members of the LCA ---they would be if the LCA recognised them , now I wonder how many there are out there ?

If the LCA had a membership of 500+ then it might be different but how many of us are there? 100? 150? Its the same 50 or 60 that show , we issue 1600 rings and get 170 birds at our Premier show , ( and we see the same birds at different shows) so where are all the other birds ? It has to make you think eh?

I don't have the answers but buy talking about it we might find them . Already on this forum we've discovered that most who post are in favour of doing away with Champion / Novice and showing all in , most who post have no problem with colour varients , maybe just maybe we are seeing an outline of where the future might take us.

Regards Paul.

Sorry Andy was posting the same time as you , If you used a Blue Hen to a Gold cock and threw Golds and Blues in the same nest then Blue is Dominant that is why the cock was not split . It follows the same inheritance rules as dominant White .

You can get Recessive Blue which follows the same inheritance rules as Recessive White and they are a Recessive White / Blue paired to a normal will produce all visually normals but both cocks and hens will be split for Recessive White / Blue .

Dominant White / Blue paired to a normal will produce both Dominant White / Blue & Normals in the same nest.

Recessive Sex Linked ( Satinette , Cinnamon etc ) Means hens are or they are not Cinnamon whilst cocks can be visually normal split for Cinnamon & Cinnamon.

Regards Paul.

understand wat you mean paul. hears a thing though (bit off track) malcom plumb (borders) 4 yrs ago paired a var yellow ck to a self (green) hen and produced a cinamon. the cocks pedigree didnt have a cin in the line and the hen cant carry cin............that young cin sired loads of cin hens the following yr.....YES it was a cock..............now how the hell did that happen ?????????


andy

kevin.

Voting for Blue,s,I was just talking tough in cheek.
Blimey 10 years dabbling with the Blues,phewwww
I am looking forward to having a chat when we meet again on this subject and for you to give me some of your valued advise.
Hope you have enjoyed the debate thus far.

How are things going with the birds thus far

Regards Joe

Andy , Cinnamon is a naturally occuring mutataiion , it happens in the wild and is thought to come about by close inbreeding . So where Malcom lumbs birds closely realted ? Probably.
Even if he bought one from a guy in Scotland and one from a guy in Wales chances are the blood was related , everyone in Borders wants a certain mans birds so eventually the gene pool will suffer. Its the same with the Lizards ---yours , mine , Joes , Darrens , whoevers come from a very small gene pool and we will all have birds related to each other and I have birds related to yours without knowing it and Darren has them as well etc etc ---see my point Andy who knows what could be thrown up at any time . Which explains without explaining when someone looks at the chicks and says ' where did that come from' ?

Regards Paul.

Hold on to your seats lad's. I produced my first Blue Lizard 14years ago! And the gentleman you mension from the southwest got his original stock of Blues from yours truly. I have also wrote a "book" about my experiances with Blues which was commended by Roy Stringer. THIS THE FIRIST TIME I HAVE EVER TOLD ANYONE ABOUT THIS. Also a while back breeders in the south-west formed a Blue Lizard club, I was asked join and did so. I informed members of the LCA council of this and said I would keep them informed of any developments, but nothing happened. This was probable over 8 years ago. I also forwarded a suggested standard and points for Blues.
Will this get me in to trouble with the council!
Why did I start to dabble with Blues? well before I came to Lizards I had always had a liking for white/blue especially when I kept fifes. So I thought how nice a Lizard would look with a white ground colour, and still believe that today. But for me to go forward with my normal Lizards I had to curb my enthusiam for Blues and keep a low profile,which is what I have done.
so there you are
regards David.
p.s. off work with torn ligements in my ankle.

ok lets put a spanner in the works ............................it has been proven that the blue is dominant (YES) my non cap gold ck that i showed last yr was commended for its depth of colour (it was bred out of a clear cap blue henx noncap gold cock.).............its not ressive or sex linked like cinnamon............SO Y IS IT NOT ALOUD?????????????????????????? IT CANT be depremental to natural stock and judgeing by the above posts its already spred all over the uk.
cinniamon i can understand as a split cock can pass its hidden genes on for 7 yrs and by that time that line could easilly of bred 300 young spred all over the uk without knowing(THAT SHOULD STAY BANNED IN MY OPPINION)

paul....i might ask MALKY (ff) to join in this debate as he would know wat to do lol

andy

you know im amazed a the number of people who keep or have kept blues, but have never talked about it. im not sure wheather was brave or daft to be open about my blues. but as a lot of you say, its gret to be able to discuss it.

paul,andy. it is dominant, you get a mix of blues and ormals in eachnest,it dosent matter what the sexis the results the same, and its usually ; a 50; 50 split

You raise a very very good point there Andy , now we've established that the blue is dominant it simply cannot affect the lizard gene pool. There would be no 'split cocks' damaging any studs ----a blue either is or is not blue.

All I can imagine is that when the fuss origianlly started it was because another variety of canary was used to introduce the blue ( white ground ) but I would say that nowadays there are enough blues around to make the introduction of another variety non practical---remember it can take 6 years to establish a gene.

Someone will have to be brave enough to present a balanced arguement to the AGM or the Council -----I believe there is talk of the LCA applying for affiliation to the IOA COM GB in time for the French World Show , all I'll say for now is that the COM recognise Blue lizards .

Regards Paul.

paul, can you clarify for me , the visual normals,cannot pass on a blue gene,have i been giving away good lizards