The Lizard Canary Association

i move on that a bit further paul........i love the lizard and would hate to loose it in the future........(most of you know my first love is norwich and british)
well after the war norwich(not like we know them now) were used as out crosses to build a bigger gene pool. what ever breed was used to introduce the white factor has only increased the gene pool.
every now and then a breed standard gets changed.....in what ever bird or livestock you keep.........the lizard has not been changed in many yrs and all birds decend from the few birds retained after the war so maybe an outcross is NOW needed anyway. the blue already exsists so lets use it....the quality is outstanding already so wont harm the normal stocks. the ones i bred in the nest of 4 were a broken cap and clear cap hens.....the noncap gold cock i showed won its class many times and pushed for specials (so iv been told,,,,and at stafford i see it for myself as i was a steward for huew. if i was taking bets as the the best in that nest the noncap would of been 3rd....both blues were better,,and they all had natural black legs to(you cant colour feed whites)


i think the time has arrived to accept them as i cannot see a reason not to.

andy

lol kevin...a semi northaner giveing money away.....best lol iv had in yrs


andy

Ok Kevin how many have you given away -----because you HAVE given away perfectly good lizards at £25 to £30 a pop

I know genetics can be hard to get your head round but a dominant either passes all its genes on or passes non of them on ----this is why you get white and yellow coloured birds in the same nest when a dominant white is paired to a clear yellow / buff . The normals ( ie Gold and Silver) produced from a blue to normal pairing are just that ---normals . Only Recessive genes result in birds being split .

I normally find when you deep into genetics peoples eyes start to glaze over but :
Genotype/Phenotype. The genotype is the actual genetic makeup of anindividual. The phenotype is the physical and functional makeup of an individual as determined both by the genotype and the environment.
Dominant/Recessive. Consider a gene in one set of chromo-somes andthe corresponding gene in the other set. If one of the genes alone can produce a characteristic of the phenotype, the gene is said to be dominant. If both genes must be the same to produce a characteristic of the phenotype, then the genes are recessive. In a situation where one of the pair is dominant and the other is recessive, the dominant gene determines the ultimate characteristic.
Homozygous/Heterozygous. Again, consider a gene in one set ofchromosomes and the corresponding gene in the other set. If the two genes are thes ame, we say that the individual is homozygous for that trait. If the two genes aredifferent, we say that the individual is heterozygous for that trait.

Glad I cleared that up.

Regards Paul.

Okay

Blimey this is interesting stuff

As so many of you have come out of the closet, remember its Blue Lizards we,re talking about.
I dont want any of you turning up @ the Classic, wearing women,s clothing and a Blue rinse.

Joe

thank for the info paul, a yes would have done, all the difficult stuff dosent register with me im afraid. the more i try to understand it the more confused i get. so i wont be giving any more away, thats good. 25 to 30s beyond my charging system, 10 to 15s my charge..tata and thanks

kevin...............£10/£15.....your killing the fancy. i even convinced stan bolton that lizards are to cheep and that is holding them back as with the price of seed ect you want a self sufficent hobby not a bleeding of household funds. £25 is the minimum that any colourfed canary shoud be(look in C&A) theres an add for lizards unmoulted and overyears (not colour fed to i bet) at £60 a pair. (and im told they are rubbish).
at stafford a guy wanted to bye my clear cap silver cock that had just won its class and asked wat i charged per bird (told him £25) he said thats cheap and could he buy it....i said as it won its class make me a senceible offer for it and he gave me £40. do i feel guilty...NO....the guy was very happy as was i (apart from it may well have won its class at the classic too). i hope i see him there this yr and hope he has had a few young of it. a good lizard is well worth £25 ..........fife cost that much and more for a good one . if im wrong why did i sell 60 in 48 hours after my add went in cagebirds and could of sold 200.....infact bob bunting and stan helped make pairs up to so i proberly sold 70 ( and yes i told all who bought them where they come from...same lines )

andy

I can confirm what Paul has said about normal Lizards bred from Blue, they are exactly that normals. I know I tried it over many years and I have seemed to do OK.
Well I am thinking that this time next year we might be thinking about classes for Blue's at some of the local clubs? Ha Kev!
Well I won't be online for a few weeks off on Holiday tomorrow, so will have to catch-up when I get back.
regards David.

The days of the £10 canary are long gone and so it should be . Think about the true cost of producing your stock----if an accountant was costing out your year it would look something like this ; do the exercise for your own benefit:

Cost of original parent stock.
Cost of outcrosses added .
Cost of housing , shed , cages etc.
Maintainence seed ( how many bags of seed a year)
Cost of soft and eggfoods .
Cost of colouring agents.
Cost of rings.
Cost of incidentals , nest pans , nest felts , tonic and condition seeds , red mite treatments , drinkers , feeders etc.
Cost of show cages.
Cost of memberships to specialist and local societies ,
Cost of entry and travel to shows.

(The above only scrtaches the surface really )
Now add all this up and divide it by the number of chicks produced-----


One thing I enjoy about showing amongst the continentals is that they know the true value of a bird , I bought four Hoso in Italy ---280 euro . Top dollar for top birds that have produced top young ----if you want to get amongst them you have to have what they have!


Regards Paul.

hi chaps, i can understand stan bolton charging 25 lets face it hes one of the best lizard men of all time. i on the other hand have never won a t a big show , and only have or have ever had average to good birds , so 10to 15 is what i consider fair price, if in the future major wins come my way then i would consider an increase, in reality i have no idea if and when that might happen,so i think ill keepon as a meat technition, tata

your spot on about stan there kevin hes a hell of a guy. but its was only last yr that he charged £25 per bird befor that it was 15/20 and after a discussion he had with me last yr realised thay are to cheap as you say he sets the standard. BUT if you bye 2 pair off him you may get a cock or hen overyear free ect....so its a bargin. if he sees a bird at a show that he likes and may be good for him he will ask if he can bye it...but he will offer more than £25 i asure you. realistically a nice well bred lizard canary SHOULD be worth £25 to £35 each or £50/£60 a pair. even at an auction i attend once in a while to put odd birds in...(with no reserve) they still make £15/£25 a piece and dealers snap them up to sell at newark ect for a lot more. dont get me wrong i dont want them to go through the roof like norwich/crest /bordes ect but if you keep charging 10/15 it has a knock on effect and the people you supply sell at the same price . ect

andy

I feel guilty selling goldfinchs for £25e the price of birds in c&a what can i say

wow nick....dont sell them. i swap a pair of lizards for a pair of goldies.......my fav bird

andy

END OF THE YEAR OK ANDY WE CAN DO A DEAL I HAVE 7 GOLDFINCH CHICKS MOULTING E.ME END OF YEAR

ok by me.... would love a pair or 2..........andy

I thought I would ask one of the continentals his take on the Blue, Jac Gubbels (past world champ)

He has said that the Blue is both dominant/recessive, that he breeds Blue to silver as Blue and gold are dominant.
There are no splits when you breed blue/silver and the young are true blue with this pairing with no splits.

HHHHHHHHHHHHHMMMMMMMMM, Gets more confusing ???? no

Joe